RIP: NetWare

Non-Technical Threads Chatting over the Back Fence
1

Hi all

This afternoon we will shut down our NetWare server.

It is like reaching the last page of a very thick book. I’ve been with
NetWare since version 2.0a in 1988 where ArcNet was used side by side
with Token-Ring and Ethernet. My first installation used Unisys
workstations with Intel 286 CPUs and Connect ArcNet cards. One
workstation with an extra 1 MB ram was also the server - hardware was
expensive those days. It ran for many years.

Then was NetWare 3.12 and then 4.11 which ran our first corporate server
in 1993 on a 486 home-built Micron server with 32 MB ram, later replaced
with an HP server with 80 MB ram. However, the old server was not
trashed but sold as second hand and served four POS systems until late
2010(!). The power supply broke down once and was replaced in three
hours for about $100, and the 2 GB SCSI harddisk was replaced in 2003,
those were the only errors experienced. How many systems live for 17
years?

In 2004 our HP server was replaced with NetWare 6.5 Small Business
Server on an IBM server. This is the installation which has run until
this day for 9½ years, though the server was replaced 8 years ago.

Three years ago it was clear that NetWare has no future despite its
extreme reliability, so I started migrating this single server to
Windows file and print servers and Active Directory. Still, the NetWare
server ran GroupWise for e-mail and Apache for our web server.

Three months ago I finally had all mail transferred to Office 365
(later, perhaps, an in-house Exchange server) and yesterday the last
service, our web site, was moved to our new Fujitsu TX140 server running
Windows Server 2012 R2 which also hosts two VMs.

The Internet killed NetWare. It used the IPX/SPX protocols while
everything should run TCP/IP. Microsoft was quite fast to adopt where
Novell was not so fast, and TCP/IP always has been felt like an add-on
as it was not native to the core of NetWare - administration of a
NetWare server has always been a bit of a challenge. I never learned
NW6.5 well - it was a job for specialists who we employed.

So … the boss (Rita, my wife) has been appointed - for the first and
last time - to face the console at 15:00 UTC to type shutdown at the
command prompt and press enter, closing the Novell book.

Gustav
Cactus Data ApS

–
cactusdata

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2

Too bad you moved to an MS solution instead of OES/GW.

–
Kim - 5/8/2014 7:35:34 AM

3

RIP indeed, sounds like quite a run there. Similar to Mr. Groneman,
too bad the sles/oes option wasn’t looked at there.

–
Stevo

4

On 08/05/2014 14:42, Stevo wrote:
[color=blue]

RIP indeed[/color]

Poor SAP …

Simon
Novell Knowledge Partner

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5

cactusdata wrote:
[color=blue]

Three years ago it was clear that NetWare has no future despite its
extreme reliability, so I started migrating this single server to
Windows file and print servers and Active Directory. Still, the
NetWare server ran GroupWise for e-mail and Apache for our web server.

Three months ago I finally had all mail transferred to Office 365
(later, perhaps, an in-house Exchange server) and yesterday the last
service, our web site, was moved to our new Fujitsu TX140 server
running Windows Server 2012 R2 which also hosts two VMs.[/color]

As others have pointed out… I’m not really sure why this was all
moved to Microsoft. Correct, NetWare hasn’t had a future in a long
time, but all those Novell services have lived on and greatly enhanced
in OES. And as to GroupWise, even if there was a desire to move off of
NetWare and not consider Linux, GroupWise runs perfectly fine on
Windows with many customers running it on Windows and in fact GroupWise
2014 supports Active Directory natively.

I’m always confounded when moving off of NetWare is equated to moving
off of Novell.

–
Does this washcloth smell like chloroform?

6

Joseph Marton sounds like they ‘said’:
[color=blue]

I’m always confounded when moving off of NetWare is equated to moving
off of Novell.[/color]

So my response to Joseph’s comment is…

I’m wishing Netware would have never gone away.

–
Stevo

7

On 5/8/2014 2:31 PM, Stevo wrote:[color=blue]

Joseph Marton sounds like they ‘said’:
[color=green]

I’m always confounded when moving off of NetWare is equated to moving
off of Novell.[/color]

So my response to Joseph’s comment is…

I’m wishing Netware would have never gone away.
[/color]
Still got 6.5 with BoarderManager running here. Purring like a kitten
for years, and years, and years, …

Bob

8

Bob,[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]

I’m always confounded when moving off of NetWare is equated to moving
off of Novell.[/color]

So my response to Joseph’s comment is…

I’m wishing Netware would have never gone away.
[/color]
Still got 6.5 with BoarderManager running here. Purring like a kitten
for years, and years, and years, …
[/color]

A few months back I retired a NetWare server that had been running
iFolder 2.1 for 300+ people since 2002. Someone said “It must really be
a relief to get rid of that old thing.” I said “Why would I be relieved
to retire a system that, for more than ten years, functioned exactly as
intended, without needing monthly patches or weekly reboots… and
without a single unplanned outage?”

9

While most folks do often equate Novell with NetWare as one and the
same. I met someone a few years back who equated Novell with Arcnet and
was curious if we know made ethernet cards. I found that one amusing.
I explained we were actually distributed a major and probably the best
Linux Distro around.
[color=blue]

I’m always confounded when moving off of NetWare is equated to moving
off of Novell.[/color]

–
Craig Wilson - MCNE, MCSE, CCNA
Novell Technical Support Engineer

Novell does not officially monitor these forums.

Suggestions/Opinions/Statements made by me are solely my own.
These thoughts may not be shared by either Novell or any rational human.

10

On 5/8/2014 4:05 PM, Black, Douglas wrote:[color=blue]

Bob,[color=green][color=darkred]

I’m always confounded when moving off of NetWare is equated to moving
off of Novell.

So my response to Joseph’s comment is…

I’m wishing Netware would have never gone away.
[/color]
Still got 6.5 with BoarderManager running here. Purring like a kitten
for years, and years, and years, …
[/color]

A few months back I retired a NetWare server that had been running
iFolder 2.1 for 300+ people since 2002. Someone said “It must really be
a relief to get rid of that old thing.” I said “Why would I be relieved
to retire a system that, for more than ten years, functioned exactly as
intended, without needing monthly patches or weekly reboots… and
without a single unplanned outage?”

[/color]
AMEN

11

Bob,[color=blue]

Still got 6.5 with BoarderManager running here. Purring like a kitten
for years, and years, and years, …[/color]

Ditto, plus a bunch of OES

–
Anders Gustafsson (NKP)
The Aaland Islands (N60 E20)

Have an idea for a product enhancement? Please visit:
http://www.novell.com/rms

12

kgroneman;2318449 Wrote:[color=blue]

Too bad you moved to an MS solution instead of OES/GW.[/color]

Two reasons. First, all our clients, one by one, left NetWare when
servers were to be replaced. They asked for, well insisted on, Windows.
At that time we had no clients with Linux servers (and still don’t
have), so it just didn’t make sense to sport our own Linux server,
Novell branded or not. Also, to be honest and I hate to mention it, but
Windows servers have proven to be quite reliable. We still have clients
running Windows Server 2000 with no updates, no reboots, just working,
even at very low resources, and we can service them with out-of-the-box
Remote Desktop Connection from any workstation.

Second, at the time to get a new file/print server we already had
several Windows servers running for other tasks as well as an
established Active Directory. Still, for months I checked out several
other file servers like Solaris, OpenFiler, and Nexenta, but either they
were a nightmare to manage or were severely limited in the OS editions
or didn’t know of AD. As we are a small shop having a Microsoft Action
Pack Subscription we had licenses for several servers. In one day I had
set up two servers with DFS (full two-way file
synchronisation/replication) as we have two locations and it just
worked. Having more exiting things to do than experimenting with file
servers, that was an EOD to me.

As for GroupWise, the situation is much the same. None of our clients
run GW anymore, everyone is at Outlook, and from the clients running
Office 365 we have only received positive feedback. So at least for an
interim solution we moved our mail to Office 365. But my non-tech
colleagues love it and I have to admit that it works very well, so most
likely we will stick with this no-nonsense solution.

But no one knows the future. What are our options for running an
in-house Novell server at zero license costs? Not a time limited
evaluation license. I’m not updated with this, sorry

/gustav

–
cactusdata

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13

cactusdata wrote:
[color=blue]

Two reasons. First, all our clients, one by one, left NetWare when
servers were to be replaced. They asked for, well insisted on,
Windows.[/color]

Were they aware of OES? Did you discuss OES with them?
[color=blue]

Also, to be honest and I hate to
mention it, but Windows servers have proven to be quite reliable.
We still have clients running Windows Server 2000 with no updates, no
reboots, just working, even at very low resources, and we can service
them with out-of-the-box Remote Desktop Connection from any
workstation.[/color]

Linux servers are just as reliable. It will be interesting to see if
anyone chimes in with Linux server uptime examples.
[color=blue]

Second, at the time to get a new file/print server we already had
several Windows servers running for other tasks as well as an
established Active Directory.[/color]

Many Novell customers go with “best of breed” and as such run both
Windows and OES side-by-side. Plus just about every Novell solution
integrates with AD.
[color=blue]

Still, for months I checked out several
other file servers like Solaris, OpenFiler, and Nexenta, but either
they were a nightmare to manage or were severely limited in the OS
editions or didn’t know of AD.[/color]

OES is managed using many of the same tools as NetWare (e.g. iManager,
ConsoleOne) making it a very easy transition. And it’s very aware of
AD. Using Domain Services for Windows (an OES feature) it’s possible
for an OES server to present itself as a Windows server providing an AD
domain that workstations can join. In addition an upcoming release of
OES will have a feature called “NSS for AD” which allows an OES server
to join a domain so that AD users can natively be assigned trustee
rights to NSS volumes.
[color=blue]

As we are a small shop having a
Microsoft Action Pack Subscription we had licenses for several
servers. In one day I had set up two servers with DFS (full two-way
file synchronisation/replication) as we have two locations and it just
worked. Having more exiting things to do than experimenting with file
servers, that was an EOD to me.[/color]

There’s no need to experiment with OES, and it’s very easy to deploy
OES in a short amount of time. Otheres here can likely chime in with
their experiences on how quickly it is to do this.
[color=blue]

As for GroupWise, the situation is much the same. None of our clients
run GW anymore, everyone is at Outlook,[/color]

Did you discuss keeping GW with them? What has been their pressing
need for Outlook?
[color=blue]

and from the clients running
Office 365 we have only received positive feedback.[/color]

None have security concerns? None have concerns about Microsoft doing
things such as modifying files synced between O365 and local PCs using
OneDrive, including adding uniquely identifiable information to MS
Office documents?

http://www.myce.com/news/microsoft-onedrive-for-business-modifies-files-as-it-syncs-71168/
[color=blue]

But no one knows the future. What are our options for running an
in-house Novell server at zero license costs?[/color]

None of your Windows servers require licensing?

–
Does this washcloth smell like chloroform?

14

Joe,

On 09.05.2014 13:30, Joseph Marton wrote:[color=blue]

None of your Windows servers require licensing?
[/color]

Not if you (illegally, I might add) use the action pack subscription for
production servers. :wink:

CU,

Massimo Rosen
Novell Knowledge Partner
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de

15

Thanks for commenting.

Yes, we discussed the possible Novell solutions with clients but it was
up the hill. At some point you realize that time is too short. We were
not on a mission and we didn’t have a battle to win, indeed not without
Novell at our side - marketing support from Novell was nil. Also, I
recall trouble obtaining the newest software from Novell for in-house
use or licensed NFR. From your comment I understand this is still the
case, and that is really a show-stopper. We don’t have funds for
experimenting with software for which there is nearly zero demand.
Again, that is sad situation given the NetWare records of the past, but
nevertheless a fact.

The MAPS addresses exactly this. At a few hundred Euros it contains
client and server licenses for 5/10 users for nearly all MS software
relevant for small businesses, and as we do need the client licenses
(Windows 8.x), the server licenses are effectively free to us as are 5
licenses for Office 365 with E3 corporate licensing. It even comes with
10 free priority support incidents, should you ever need it (we
haven’t).

/gustav

–
cactusdata

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16

Hi.

Let’s just get some facts straight…

On 09.05.2014 15:16, cactusdata wrote:[color=blue]

Thanks for commenting.

Yes, we discussed the possible Novell solutions with clients but it was
up the hill. At some point you realize that time is too short. We were
not on a mission and we didn’t have a battle to win, indeed not without
Novell at our side - marketing support from Novell was nil. Also, I
recall trouble obtaining the newest software from Novell for in-house
use or licensed NFR. From your comment I understand this is still the
case, and that is really a show-stopper. We don’t have funds for
experimenting with software for which there is nearly zero demand.
Again, that is sad situation given the NetWare records of the past, but
nevertheless a fact.[/color]

Production NFR licenses for all Novell products is and always was a
non-issue for all registered Novell partners.
[color=blue]

The MAPS addresses exactly this. At a few hundred Euros it contains
client and server licenses for 5/10 users[/color]

STRICTLY for temporary testing and demostration purposes only, and
under no circumstances to be used for inhouse production. Please read
the EULA for the Action Pack.
[color=blue]

for nearly all MS software
relevant for small businesses, and as we do need the client licenses
(Windows 8.x), the server licenses are effectively free to us as are 5
licenses for Office 365 with E3 corporate licensing. It even comes with
10 free priority support incidents, should you ever need it (we
haven’t).[/color]

You are dead wrong, and have basically just publicy admitted you’re
running your business on illegal microsoft software.

Not to mention that I totally fail to understand how this is relevant to
you customers, which certainly can’t use an Action Pack, but have to
pay for Microsofts Software. And since MS no longer offers anything
compelling for small businesses (very much the opposite is true for
Novell), I’m not quite sure where this discussion is based on. If you
compare legal license costs between Microsoft and Novell for any
business smaller than 200 users, Novell beats Microsoft so badly that
you probably won’t even believe it.

Yes, they don’t market it. I give you that.

CU,

Massimo Rosen
Novell Knowledge Partner
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de

17

Well, I don’t know why, but you’ve got the MAPS completely wrong. The
whole purpose with this is to provide an option for small shops to get
familiar with the software by daily use.
Thus is stated:

License table for Microsoft Action Pack partners
Benefits include the latest internal-use software that you can use to
run your business, sell your solutions, develop applications, and train
your employees. These licenses must not be resold or used for direct
revenue-generating activities, commercial purposes, personal purposes,
or customer training.

On the contrary, at the partner resources page of Novell:

http://support.novell.com/subscriptions/portal/spc

is still listed as I recalled it:

Registration Code and Use Restrictions
Any product, registration codes, and associated software patches that
you obtain via this Subscriber Portal may only be used for evaluation,
testing, demonstration and development purposes; they may not be used in
a production environment.

As I read it, that excludes regular daily use. thus you can not use it
to run your business.
Please - by all means - correct my if I’m wrong.

Your other comments are, of course, right except that you miss the
point: Clients don’t know about or request Novell software, thus no
business in this part of the World (Denmark) where we operate. Sorry.

/gustav

–
cactusdata

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18

cactusdata wrote:
[color=blue]

Yes, we discussed the possible Novell solutions with clients but it
was up the hill. At some point you realize that time is too short. We
were not on a mission and we didn’t have a battle to win, indeed not
without Novell at our side - marketing support from Novell was nil.[/color]

That’s why we in Novell sales are here. We support both customers and
partners and I help partners all the time. In addition to help from
sales we have plenty of enablement tools in the PartnerNet program
available to all partners.
[color=blue]

Also, I recall trouble obtaining the newest software from Novell for
in-house use or licensed NFR. From your comment I understand this is
still the case, and that is really a show-stopper.[/color]

That’s a perfect time to call the PartnerNet help desk as they should
easily be able to help you obtain NFR licenses for any Novell product.
[color=blue]

We don’t have
funds for experimenting with software for which there is nearly zero
demand.[/color]

Hmm… not sure about the experimentation part, and in your previous
post you mentioned experimenting with file servers such as Solaris,
OpenFiler, and Nexenta. Talk about something with little demand. :slight_smile:
Well, I shouldn’t say that as I don’t know how much demand there is for
those products but to say there is zero demand for Novell’s products is
nowhere near accurate. In fact in Europe we’ve had quite a few great
competitive wins recently as customers are ripping out Microsoft
products and replacing them with Novell products: OES, GroupWise,
ZENworks, and Vibe.
[color=blue]

The MAPS addresses exactly this.[/color]

I’m not familiar with MAPS, but sounds like from Massimo that it does
not address this at all.
[color=blue]

At a few hundred Euros it contains
client and server licenses for 5/10 users for nearly all MS software
relevant for small businesses,[/color]

But since it’s only for partners it’s not a small business solution.
As Massimo pointed out, Microsoft no longer has a small business
solution other than Windows Server Essentials which is only for up to
25 users and does not include any product other than Windows Server.
With Novell Open Workgroup Suite Small Business Edition, customers with
up to 200 users get OES, GroupWise, Vibe, ZENworks Configuration
Management, ZENworks Endpoint Security Management, Filr, and iPrint
Desktop all for a very low price, and if a customer owns any of these
products they can purchase upgrade licenses to move into NOWS-SBE.
I’ve been doing everything I can to get the word out on NOWS-SBE as
it’s just an incredible offering and Microsoft does not come anywhere
close. I’ve worked with a number of customers who recognized this and
have moved into the suite as a result.

–
Does this washcloth smell like chloroform?

19

cactusdata wrote:
[color=blue]

On the contrary, at the partner resources page of Novell:

http://support.novell.com/subscriptions/portal/spc

is still listed as I recalled it:

Registration Code and Use Restrictions
Any product, registration codes, and associated software patches that
you obtain via this Subscriber Portal may only be used for evaluation,
testing, demonstration and development purposes; they may not be used
in a production environment.[/color]

That’s for our various subscriptions such as the Professional Resource
Suite. That’s available to everyone, not just partners, and is only
for evaluation. You need to look at the partner benefits on ParterNet.

https://www.partnernetprogram.com/secure/program/partner_use/novell.html

Even at the basic silver level you are allowed to use up to 50 users of
just about every Novell product internally.

–
Does this washcloth smell like chloroform?

20

jmarton;2318661 Wrote:[color=blue]

cactusdata wrote:
That’s for our various subscriptions such as the Professional Resource
Suite. That’s available to everyone, not just partners, and is only
for evaluation. You need to look at the partner benefits on ParterNet.

https://www.partnernetprogram.com/secure/program/partner_use/novell.html

Even at the basic silver level you are allowed to use up to 50 users of
just about every Novell product internally.[/color]

Thanks, I sincerely tried but I need help.
I go to:

https://www.partnernetprogram.com/secure/program/partner_use/novell.html

then pick Resources, Benefits and land here:

https://www.partnernetprogram.com/program/benefits.html

then under Technical Services Benefits pick Professional Ressource
Kit-Partner and land here:

http://support.novell.com/subscriptions/portal/spc

where I select Professional Resource Suite Electronic - Partner.
Then I can pick Download Licenses and land at the page title (URL
unchanged):
[color=blue]

Subscriber Portal
Download Benefit

Download licenses for Novell software. If you receive CDs/DVDs as part
of your subscription, you can download the same licenses from CD 1A
here. For subscriptions with expanded levels, you can download the
expanded licenses here.[/color]

But at the bottom it reads:[color=blue]

Any product, registration codes, and associated software patches that
you obtain via this Subscriber Portal may only be used for evaluation,
testing, demonstration and development purposes; they may not be used in
a production environment.[/color]

The magic words seem to be:

For subscriptions with expanded levels, you can download the expanded
licenses here.

But nothing about what expanded levels is and what products they
include, nor which licenses are “expanded”.

How do I proceed, please?

/gustav

–
cactusdata

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