Goodbye Netware and hello SLES or Windows?

We have been a non-profit using GroupWise and Netware for more than a
decade. The two Netware servers have been playing nice to the four
Windows servers, but now we must decide if we keep GroupWise and move
into SLES or we move to Exchange. My IT dept of two :slight_smile: wants to keep
GroupWise and dive into SLES while our consultants keep saying drop it
and move to Exchange because GroupWise is on death row and SLES is
wonderful until it breaks and then is hard to get help. If you have been
in the same cross road and kept GroupWise, how difficult is the
administration of SLES and does it play nice with Windows servers?

Your expertise will be greatly appreciated!


lanaleon

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Lanaleon,[color=blue]

while our consultants keep saying drop it
and move to Exchange[/color]

They are likely to say so because it will cost you more consulting
fees…

GW on SLES runs just fine. In what way do you want it to play with the
Windows servers?


Anders Gustafsson (NKP)
The Aaland Islands (N60 E20)

Have an idea for a product enhancement? Please visit:
http://www.novell.com/rms

lanaleon wrote:
[color=blue]

We have been a non-profit using GroupWise and Netware for more than a
decade. The two Netware servers have been playing nice to the four
Windows servers, but now we must decide if we keep GroupWise and move
into SLES or we move to Exchange. My IT dept of two :slight_smile: wants to keep
GroupWise and dive into SLES while our consultants keep saying drop it
and move to Exchange because GroupWise is on death row and SLES is
wonderful until it breaks and then is hard to get help. If you have
been in the same cross road and kept GroupWise, how difficult is the
administration of SLES and does it play nice with Windows servers?[/color]

GroupWise is hardly on death row–that is pure FUD. There’s a great
interactive roadmap located at www.novell.com/gwroadmap. There’s also
been some great comments from independent analysts such as Gartner.
Not to mention moving GroupWise from NW to Linux is a much simpler
process than migrating to Exchange, saving both time and money. You
can find more info comparing GroupWise 2012 to Exchange 2010 here.

http://www.novell.com/products/groupwise/resource-library.html#competitive

Also keep in mind that with our next release of GroupWise (code-named
“Windmere”) we’re targeting a new admin model which will do things such
as remove the requirement for eDirectory, introduce web administration,
etc.


Does this washcloth smell like chloroform?

lanaleon sounds like they ‘said’:
[color=blue]

Your expertise will be greatly appreciated![/color]

So my response to lanaleon’s comment is…

I would say stick w/ Groupwise on SLES, runs great. Consultants want
exchange, etc as it means more money for them in consulting fees.

We went from Netware to SLES/OES, went pretty smooth for the most part.

Consultants won’t tell you about the additional CALs you’ll need for MS
servers anyway. We’ve been told that any user that connects in any
way to an MS server requires a CAL for that server as well as for AD,
so you’re looking @ AD licenses, exchange licenses, plus CALs for users
on servers.


Stevo

[color=blue]

but now we must decide if we keep GroupWise and move
into SLES or we move to Exchange.?
[/color]

GroupWise also works on Windows…so you can tell the Consultants that. So
no extra cost to you since you already own GroupWise…


Paul

The windows servers we have are: backup server using BackupExec (backups
Novell without a problem and I know there are other options like SEP), a
property management server with a SQL db, a WTS server to share the SQL
db and other in-house databases and a Blackberry server. We want to make
sure the new platform continues to work with Active Directory.


lanaleon

lanaleon’s Profile: http://forums.novell.com/member.php?userid=16538
View this thread: http://forums.novell.com/showthread.php?t=459123

[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]

[/color][/color][/color]
[color=blue]
The windows servers we have are: backup server using BackupExec (backups
Novell without a problem and I know there are other options like SEP), a
property management server with a SQL db, a WTS server to share the SQL
db and other in‑house databases and a Blackberry server. We want to[/color]
make[color=blue]
sure the new platform continues to work with Active Directory.[/color]

While with GroupWise 2012 (and SP! releasing in the next month or so)It
still does require eDirectory. So you can Add either SLES boxes with
eDirectory or add Windows Server, with eDirectory only(do not put AD on it)

Also if you chose to go to SLES, remember you also get Data Synchronizer -
Mobility Pack which will allow you to sync e-mail, appointments , contacts
with users who are not using Blackberries, such as iPhones, iPads, Android
tablets and Blackberry PlayBooks, without using Blackberry Bridge

The next major release of GroupWise code named Windemere will remove the
dependency on eDirectory, so either eDirectory or Active Directory can be
the User Source for the GroupWise accounts.

By keeping GroupWise you will be able to leverage your current knowledge,
reduce the need for End-user training and stay with a secure mail system. It
will also have no issues existing with your Existing BES environment.


Paul

On 8/20/2012 2:10 PM, Anders Gustafsson wrote:[color=blue]

Lanaleon,[color=green]

while our consultants keep saying drop it
and move to Exchange[/color]

They are likely to say so because it will cost you more consulting
fees…

GW on SLES runs just fine. In what way do you want it to play with the
Windows servers?
[/color]

Or because that is what they know.

Make the correct choice of product for your company, then pick the
consultant that can help with that.

Don’t pick the Product based on the Consultant.


Craig Wilson - MCNE, MCSE, CCNA
Novell Knowledge Partner

Novell does not officially monitor these forums.

Suggestions/Opinions/Statements made by me are solely my own.
These thoughts may not be shared by either Novell or any rational human.

I know this is Novell hosted an all, but lets keep the FUD to a minimum.
Education purposes only folks.

MS licenses the core product and then USER or DEVICE cals. Server,
Exchange and SQL work the same way.

For example you have a windows server for file/print, an Exchange server
and 10 workstations. (not that you would do this, just an example)

the license count would be:
2x Server OS
1x Exchange Server
5x Windows Server device or User CALs
5x Exchange Device or User CALs

If an Org has 25 users and only 10 shared workstations, device licenses
are acceptable. If an organization has users with a workstation, laptop
and cell phone, then user licensing makes sense.

There are no ‘AD’ licenses.

On 8/20/2012 1:22 PM, Stevo wrote:[color=blue]

Consultants won’t tell you about the additional CALs you’ll need for MS
servers anyway. We’ve been told that any user that connects in any
way to an MS server requires a CAL for that server as well as for AD,
so you’re looking @ AD licenses, exchange licenses, plus CALs for users
on servers.
[/color]

One man’s FUD is another man’s reality. One of the things most have
learned in here is that MS licensing reality varies from company to
company, and the answers you get for your questions vary from moment to
moment from MS staff, including those specifically in licensing.

There are people in here whose companies have been hit with bills for
far, far more in licensing than they were led to believe they would
have to pay, but that bill only came AFTER everything was installed and
MS audited their licensing. : )


Susan
Novell Community Chat Moderator

http://forums.novell.com/faq.php?faq=novfor#faq_rules
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Please read the following before posting in here:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/27zopdy

unsigned sounds like they ‘said’:
[color=blue]

I know this is Novell hosted an all, but lets keep the FUD to a
minimum. Education purposes only folks.[/color]

So my response to unsigned’s comment is…

Was not meaning to be bashing or anything like that. We have an app
(timecard app) that users access via a web interface. We were told
that we need CALs for this server for users to access the web
interface. To me that doesn’t make any sense, when we already paid a
pile of money for the software, which included licensing.


Stevo

FUD and perceived reality isn’t a replacement for education.

I too have experienced my fare share of MS licensing quandaries, but do
know the basics are the basics. This wasn’t in reference to server
virtualization, VDI, DR, product clusters or such where things can get
hairy. No matter our core OS’s, as IT Pro’s its likely that we will
touch MS products and have to account for licensing in some capacity.

I will also say that MS isn’t unique in having inconsistent licensing
application, yet they are far from antagonistic. I process our Novell
yearly MLA renewals and the methods and responses have varied widely
each year. It has been in the neighborhood of 10 years and I can’t think
of one where I wasn’t surprised by something. Granted, Novell takes good
care of us customers and if there is a question and documentation of a
prior answer (right/wrong/changed), the issue is taken care of. I
wouldn’t hold my breath that MS would take the same position.

On 8/20/2012 4:15 PM, Susan wrote:[color=blue]

One man’s FUD is another man’s reality. One of the things most have
learned in here is that MS licensing reality varies from company to
company, and the answers you get for your questions vary from moment to
moment from MS staff, including those specifically in licensing.

There are people in here whose companies have been hit with bills for
far, far more in licensing than they were led to believe they would
have to pay, but that bill only came AFTER everything was installed and
MS audited their licensing. : )
[/color]

I didn’t think there was bashing, sorry! I was just trying to put some
solid info out there.

Its not legal advice, but its my understanding that it depends on the
version of windows and whether or not the user uses AD as a login
processor for the web site.

The licensing requirement is pretty well publicized for web servers as
MS has been, since the 2008 release anyway, attempting to erode the OSS
hold. (right or wrong, IMHO, I prefer apache for web servers). This is
one of the reasons MS released the Web edition of server.

On 8/20/2012 4:47 PM, Stevo wrote:[color=blue]

unsigned sounds like they ‘said’:
[color=green]

I know this is Novell hosted an all, but lets keep the FUD to a
minimum. Education purposes only folks.[/color]

So my response to unsigned’s comment is…

Was not meaning to be bashing or anything like that. We have an app
(timecard app) that users access via a web interface. We were told
that we need CALs for this server for users to access the web
interface. To me that doesn’t make any sense, when we already paid a
pile of money for the software, which included licensing.
[/color]

the consultants either know SFA about groupwise and want to put you on
something they know about (as well as the fees to migrate from groupwise
to exchange, software and so on)

if groupwise works for the company then keep groupwise and move it to
SLES, don’t take the consultants word as gospel as half the time they
can’t care less about the needs of the company

honestly i’d stick with what works well which soudns like groupwise for
you guys


gleach1

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View this thread: http://forums.novell.com/showthread.php?t=459123

How’s the weather up above Chicago these days? Has the heat wave
finally broken? : )


Susan
Novell Community Chat Moderator

http://forums.novell.com/faq.php?faq=novfor#faq_rules
http://www.ncci.org NCCIrregulars Web Site
https://www.facebook.com/groups/NCCIrregulars

Please read the following before posting in here:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/27zopdy

On 20/08/2012 17:36, lanaleon wrote:[color=blue]

We have been a non-profit using GroupWise and Netware for more than a
decade. The two Netware servers have been playing nice to the four
Windows servers, but now we must decide if we keep GroupWise and move
into SLES or we move to Exchange. My IT dept of two :slight_smile: wants to keep
GroupWise and dive into SLES while our consultants keep saying drop it
and move to Exchange because GroupWise is on death row and SLES is
wonderful until it breaks and then is hard to get help. If you have been
in the same cross road and kept GroupWise, how difficult is the
administration of SLES and does it play nice with Windows servers?[/color]

GW on windows isn’t quite as nice as on sles or netware, but works
fine. if you want to avoid linux (and many do, that don’t already have
skills there but are a mixed netware/windows shop) then its worth
considering.

Lanaleon,[color=blue]

property management server with a SQL db, a WTS server to share the SQL
db and other in-house databases and a Blackberry server. We want to make
sure the new platform continues to work with Active Directory.[/color]

OK. FWIW, you might not even need AD as MS SQL can authenticate against
Domain Services on Novell.


Anders Gustafsson (NKP)
The Aaland Islands (N60 E20)

Have an idea for a product enhancement? Please visit:
http://www.novell.com/rms

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 20:36:08 GMT, unsigned unsigned@digerati.us
wrote:
[color=blue]

I know this is Novell hosted an all, but lets keep the FUD to a minimum.
Education purposes only folks.

MS licenses the core product and then USER or DEVICE cals. Server,
Exchange and SQL work the same way.

For example you have a windows server for file/print, an Exchange server
and 10 workstations. (not that you would do this, just an example)

the license count would be:
2x Server OS
1x Exchange Server
5x Windows Server device or User CALs
5x Exchange Device or User CALs[/color]

If you have 10 workstations, wouldn’t it be:
10x Windows Server device or User CALs
10x Exchange Device or User CALs

On 8/20/2012 11:36 AM, lanaleon wrote:[color=blue]

We have been a non-profit using GroupWise and Netware for more than a
decade. The two Netware servers have been playing nice to the four
Windows servers, but now we must decide if we keep GroupWise and move
into SLES or we move to Exchange. My IT dept of two :slight_smile: wants to keep
GroupWise and dive into SLES while our consultants keep saying drop it
and move to Exchange because GroupWise is on death row and SLES is
wonderful until it breaks and then is hard to get help. If you have been
in the same cross road and kept GroupWise, how difficult is the
administration of SLES and does it play nice with Windows servers?

Your expertise will be greatly appreciated!

[/color]

we are kind of in the same boat, but we did decide to stick with
GroupWise and OES/SLES for now. We are a small shop and needed a
consultant for help on OES issues and found none in our area. Every
consultant we talked to couldn’t help us. (Actually my GWAVA rep told me
we are the last GW shop in this area.)

The quotes we got for migrating to Windows servers, Exchange, etc was
way beyond what we could afford. So, we are moving forward with the
GW/OES migrations, which is scary with no help around.

Steve B,[color=blue]

which is scary with no help around.[/color]

We are here! :slight_smile:


Anders Gustafsson (NKP)
The Aaland Islands (N60 E20)

Have an idea for a product enhancement? Please visit:
http://www.novell.com/rms