Goodbye Netware and hello SLES or Windows?

On 8/21/2012 10:28 AM, Anders Gustafsson wrote:[color=blue]

Steve B,[color=green]

which is scary with no help around.[/color]

We are here! :slight_smile:
[/color]

don’t get me wrong - the forums have always been my lifeline, but it
helps to have someone on site when it all goes in the crapper.

Steve B,[color=blue]

, but it
helps to have someone on site when it all goes in the crapper[/color]

There are several consultants that do this type of support. Have you
talked to Danita?


Anders Gustafsson (NKP)
The Aaland Islands (N60 E20)

Have an idea for a product enhancement? Please visit:
http://www.novell.com/rms

Stevo;2214168 Wrote:[color=blue]

unsigned sounds like they ‘said’:
[color=green]

I know this is Novell hosted an all, but lets keep the FUD to a
minimum. Education purposes only folks.[/color]

So my response to unsigned’s comment is…

Was not meaning to be bashing or anything like that. We have an app
(timecard app) that users access via a web interface. We were told
that we need CALs for this server for users to access the web
interface. To me that doesn’t make any sense, when we already paid a
pile of money for the software, which included licensing.


Stevo[/color]

That’s correct. If the timecard server is running on a Windows server,
then any user/device that connects to it (even if through a reverse
proxy) AND authenticates (ie, you have to login to the app to use it)
requires a CAL.
MS is quite clear on that and gives only two specific use cases where
that’s not the case:

  1. This is a web-based app that’s public facing and does not require
    authentication (ie, some generic website with info on it)
    or
  2. You buy the external connector license and I THINK (this is NYS
    contract pricing) it was like $75,000 per server (licensed per server).


The opinions expressed are my own.
Check out my OES2 Guides:
Installing OES2 SP2:
http://www.novell.com/communities/node/11600/oes2-sp2-installation-guide
Upgrading to OES2 with ID Transfer:
http://www.novell.com/communities/node/11601/oes2-sp2-migration-guide-transfer-id-scenarios
GroupWise Migration with OES2 ID Transfer:
http://www.novell.com/communities/node/11602/groupwise-migration-netware-oes2-sp2-transfer-id

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On 8/21/2012 10:22 AM, KeN Etter wrote:[color=blue]

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 20:36:08 GMT, unsigned unsigned@digerati.us
wrote:
[color=green]

I know this is Novell hosted an all, but lets keep the FUD to a minimum.
Education purposes only folks.

MS licenses the core product and then USER or DEVICE cals. Server,
Exchange and SQL work the same way.

For example you have a windows server for file/print, an Exchange server
and 10 workstations. (not that you would do this, just an example)

the license count would be:
2x Server OS
1x Exchange Server
5x Windows Server device or User CALs
5x Exchange Device or User CALs[/color]

If you have 10 workstations, wouldn’t it be:
10x Windows Server device or User CALs
10x Exchange Device or User CALs

[/color]

Likely no additional Win server CALs would be needed because I think all
of the server OSs come with 5 CALs. So 2 server licenses would cover the
10 workstations.

Kevin,

On 21.08.2012 19:46, kjhurni wrote:[color=blue]

That’s correct. If the timecard server is running on a Windows server,
then any user/device that connects to it (even if through a reverse
proxy) AND authenticates[/color]

Clarification: You can remove the authentication bit. Authentication is
irrelevant to the question if you need a CAL or not. On non-Web-Editions
of Windows that is.

CU,

Massimo Rosen
Novell Knowledge Partner
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de

Hi.

On 21.08.2012 16:41, Steve B wrote:[color=blue]

we are kind of in the same boat, but we did decide to stick with
GroupWise and OES/SLES for now. We are a small shop and needed a
consultant for help on OES issues and found none in our area.[/color]

Of course, that begs the question: What is your area?
[color=blue]

The quotes we got for migrating to Windows servers, Exchange, etc was
way beyond what we could afford.[/color]

And rest assured: There’s a 99% chance that the quotes were WAY too
low compared to reality.
[color=blue]

So, we are moving forward with the
GW/OES migrations, which is scary with no help around.[/color]

Good choice. :wink:

CU,

Massimo Rosen
Novell Knowledge Partner
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de

mrosen;2214376 Wrote:[color=blue]

Kevin,

On 21.08.2012 19:46, kjhurni wrote:[color=green]

That’s correct. If the timecard server is running on a Windows[/color]
server,[color=green]
then any user/device that connects to it (even if through a reverse
proxy) AND authenticates[/color]

Clarification: You can remove the authentication bit. Authentication
is
irrelevant to the question if you need a CAL or not. On
non-Web-Editions
of Windows that is.

CU,

Massimo Rosen
Novell Knowledge Partner
No emails please!
‘Untitled Document’ (http://www.cfc-it.de)[/color]

Not quite:

from MS own FAQ page (for non-specialty versions of Windows):
[color=blue]

If a user or device accesses a server running Windows Server but is
authenticating via a third-party authentication application
(non-Microsoft-based authentication), does the user or device still
require a Windows Server CAL?

Yes, if the user or device is authenticated or otherwise individually
identified by a server running Windows Server through any other means,
it requires a Windows Server CAL. The specific Windows Server CAL
requirement is defined in the Microsoft Product Use Rights as follows:
“You do not need CALs for any user or device that accesses your
instances of the server software only through the Internet without being
authenticated or otherwise individually identified by the server
software or through any other means.”[/color]

So authentication IS relevant in the above on non-web enabled
versions.

Their web-enabled stuff is covered under specialty licenses:
[color=blue]

I am using Windows Web Server 2008 to deploy Internet facing web
services. Is a Windows Server CAL required if access to the servers is
authenticated?

No. Windows Web Server 2008 is licensed with a server license only and
no CALs are required even if the access is authenticated. However, when
Windows Web Server 2008 is used as a scale-out front end for
applications running on back end servers, Windows Server CALs may still
be required on these back end servers running Windows Server.[/color]

So authentication is irrelevant on Web-enabled versions (specialty)
versions of Windows


The opinions expressed are my own.
Check out my OES2 Guides:
Installing OES2 SP2:
http://www.novell.com/communities/node/11600/oes2-sp2-installation-guide
Upgrading to OES2 with ID Transfer:
http://www.novell.com/communities/node/11601/oes2-sp2-migration-guide-transfer-id-scenarios
GroupWise Migration with OES2 ID Transfer:
http://www.novell.com/communities/node/11602/groupwise-migration-netware-oes2-sp2-transfer-id

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View this thread: http://forums.novell.com/showthread.php?t=459123

kjhurni wrote:
[color=blue]

So authentication is irrelevant on Web-enabled versions (specialty)
versions of Windows[/color]

And it’s all irrelevant if customers just stick with Novell solutions.
:slight_smile:


Does this washcloth smell like chloroform?

Kevin,

On 21.08.2012 23:46, kjhurni wrote:[color=blue]

Not quite:[/color]

Hmm. Let me highlight the important part for you:
[color=blue]

from MS own FAQ page (for non-specialty versions of Windows):[color=green]

“You do not need CALs for any user or device that accesses your
instances of the server software only through the Internet without being
authenticated or otherwise individually identified by the server
software or through any other means.”[/color][/color]

E.G:

Access from the Internet without auth: No CAL.

Access from the Interne with authentication (regardless which): CAL

Access from a local LAN, regardless if authenticated by any means or
not: CAL.

There used to be a nice example somewhere at Microsofts site. If you use
Windows Server solely and exclusively for DHCP, you need a CAL for
every device that gets an IP from it.

CU,

Massimo Rosen
Novell Knowledge Partner
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de

On 8/21/2012 12:44 PM, Anders Gustafsson wrote:[color=blue]

Steve B,[color=green]

, but it
helps to have someone on site when it all goes in the crapper[/color]

There are several consultants that do this type of support. Have you
talked to Danita?
[/color]
I know they are out there - we wanted someone local that could
physically come into the office. ("if Steve gets hit by a bus and we
have IT issues, who do we call?) There are a lot of consultants around
here that can do that, but they only work on MS stuff.
Probably not a big deal - I have only had to contact NTS once in the
past 18yrs, and haven’t been hit by a bus - so not a bad track record.

Absolutely correct. I changed the numbers above before posting and
didn’t below. Crow eaten. :frowning:
[color=blue]

If you have 10 workstations, wouldn’t it be:
10x Windows Server device or User CALs
10x Exchange Device or User CALs

[/color]

mrosen;2214414 Wrote:[color=blue]

Kevin,

On 21.08.2012 23:46, kjhurni wrote:[color=green]

Not quite:[/color]

Hmm. Let me highlight the important part for you:
[color=green]

from MS own FAQ page (for non-specialty versions of Windows):[color=darkred]

"You do not need CALs for any user or device that accesses your
instances of the server software only through the Internet without[/color][/color]
being[color=green][color=darkred]

authenticated or otherwise individually identified by the server
software or through any other means."[/color][/color]

E.G:

Access from the Internet without auth: No CAL.

Access from the Interne with authentication (regardless which): CAL

Access from a local LAN, regardless if authenticated by any means or
not: CAL.

There used to be a nice example somewhere at Microsofts site. If you
use
Windows Server solely and exclusively for DHCP, you need a CAL for
every device that gets an IP from it.

CU,

Massimo Rosen
Novell Knowledge Partner
No emails please!
‘Untitled Document’ (http://www.cfc-it.de)[/color]

Yes, but you said that authentication is IRRELEVANT with non-web
versions of Windows. I was pointing out that Authentication IS relevant
for non-web versions (specialty).

In regards to DHCP the FAQ I quoted addresses that since it falls
outside of the 'Internet only … or otherwise individually identified
by the server software". Since DHCP identifies via MAC address, then
you need a CAL according to the FAQ, which does coincide with what you
mention.


The opinions expressed are my own.
Check out my OES2 Guides:
Installing OES2 SP2:
http://www.novell.com/communities/node/11600/oes2-sp2-installation-guide
Upgrading to OES2 with ID Transfer:
http://www.novell.com/communities/node/11601/oes2-sp2-migration-guide-transfer-id-scenarios
GroupWise Migration with OES2 ID Transfer:
http://www.novell.com/communities/node/11602/groupwise-migration-netware-oes2-sp2-transfer-id

kjhurni’s Profile: http://forums.novell.com/member.php?userid=734
View this thread: http://forums.novell.com/showthread.php?t=459123

Yep, and that was my initial point. All of those items are in the MS
Licensing documents on their website. Sure its difficult to work through
(right, wrong, indifferent), but that’s what we IT types have to do. If
anything, this is a great reminder of the tremendous value Novell
brings to our networks.

On 8/21/2012 5:34 PM, Massimo Rosen wrote:[color=blue]

E.G:

Access from the Internet without auth: No CAL.

Access from the Interne with authentication (regardless which): CAL

Access from a local LAN, regardless if authenticated by any means or
not: CAL.

There used to be a nice example somewhere at Microsofts site. If you use
Windows Server solely and exclusively for DHCP, you need a CAL for
every device that gets an IP from it.

CU,[/color]

I want to thank everyone that contributed to the thread. I am going to
push to stay with GW in my meeting in two weeks. We are lucky we are
near the NYC area, so we won’t have a lack of Novell consultants if
something goes wrong. Thanks again! :slight_smile:


lanaleon

lanaleon’s Profile: http://forums.novell.com/member.php?userid=16538
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lanaleon,
[color=blue]

I want to thank everyone that contributed to the thread. I am going to
push to stay with GW in my meeting in two weeks. We are lucky we are
near the NYC area, so we won’t have a lack of Novell consultants if
something goes wrong. Thanks again! :slight_smile:
[/color]

Be sure to run the numbers on storage cost for an Exchange environment.
Our disk space requirements went through the roof when we migrated.

Good luck.

And 3rd Party Mgmt Tools.

I recall when a previous employer migrated to AD, they ended up spending
many millions on AD and Exchange Management products that dwarfed the
cost of everything else.

On 8/22/2012 2:22 PM, Douglas Black wrote:[color=blue]

lanaleon,
[color=green]

I want to thank everyone that contributed to the thread. I am going to
push to stay with GW in my meeting in two weeks. We are lucky we are
near the NYC area, so we won’t have a lack of Novell consultants if
something goes wrong. Thanks again! :slight_smile:
[/color]

Be sure to run the numbers on storage cost for an Exchange environment.
Our disk space requirements went through the roof when we migrated.

Good luck.
[/color]


Craig Wilson - MCNE, MCSE, CCNA
Novell Knowledge Partner

Novell does not officially monitor these forums.

Suggestions/Opinions/Statements made by me are solely my own.
These thoughts may not be shared by either Novell or any rational human.

On 22/08/2012 19:22, Douglas Black wrote:
[color=blue]

Be sure to run the numbers on storage cost for an Exchange environment.
Our disk space requirements went through the roof when we migrated.[/color]

Apparently our memory requirements went through the roof too just for
handling files - it seems you require 1KB of RAM per file!

Simon
Novell/SUSE/NetIQ Knowledge Partner


Do you work with Novell technologies at a university, college or school?
If so, your campus could benefit from joining the Novell Technology
Transfer Partner (TTP) program. See novell.com/ttp for more details.

kjhurni sounds like they ‘said’:
[color=blue]

That’s correct. If the timecard server is running on a Windows
server, then any user/device that connects to it (even if through a
reverse proxy) AND authenticates (ie, you have to login to the app to
use it) requires a CAL.[/color]

So my response to kjhurni’s comment is…

Ok, so why the heck would the software vendor not mention this and
include it in the initial purchase?


Stevo

Stevo,[color=blue]

Ok, so why the heck would the software vendor not mention this and
include it in the initial purchase?[/color]

Because it would make his app more expensive…?


Anders Gustafsson (NKP)
The Aaland Islands (N60 E20)

Have an idea for a product enhancement? Please visit:
http://www.novell.com/rms

On 28/08/2012 14:44, Stevo wrote:
[color=blue]

So my response to kjhurni’s comment is…

Ok, so why the heck would the software vendor not mention this and
include it in the initial purchase?[/color]

Err … perhaps so you still buy their software?!

Simon
Novell/SUSE/NetIQ Knowledge Partner


Do you work with Novell technologies at a university, college or school?
If so, your campus could benefit from joining the Novell Technology
Transfer Partner (TTP) program. See novell.com/ttp for more details.